Showing posts with label Trump or Death flag. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Trump or Death flag. Show all posts

August 8, 2023

Fearing the Trump or Death flag flyers

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Above: There are at least four versions of flags saying that the people displaying them are willing to die or kill for Trump. Of course the most popular flag is on the upper left.

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By Hal Brown

Having read in a Raw Story article (below)  that Judge Chukan had increased the level of protective security which is no doubt in response to the heightened threats coming from Trump and the danger that he will egg on a supporter to act out violently I wrote the following comment. It is really the gist of my blog essay for today.


My comment:  It's not beyond the realm of possiblity that there are a few violence prone unhinged and ignorant Trump cultists who don't know what word "recused" means and don't know it is a legal term. They may think it means something far more dire. I am glad this judge has enchanced her security detail since there may be someone out there who would be willing to martre himself for Trump, someone that is the sort that would fly this flag, one that has a message that can be taken two ways: I would give my life for Trump or I would take your life for him. See this article about the flag: Who Embraces the Slogan, ‘Trump or Death’? 

Click above to read article

Then in looking for an image of the Trump or Death flag to add to my comment  I came across this article in the venerable conservative publication National Review founded by William F. Buckley in 1955. It explores in depth the very topic I decided to write about.


Click above to read article

The article is by National Review senior poltical correspondent Jim Geraghty (profile). 

This is the paragraph that jumped out at me:

The full embrace of a “my guy or we kill your (sic) or we die trying” really ought to spur an “are we the baddies?” moment. Then again, some people may well get a thrill out of being the bad guys.

I think the author had a typo and meant:

The full embrace of a “my guy or we kill you or we die trying” really ought to spur an “are we the baddies?” moment. Then again, some people may well get a thrill out of being the bad guys.

Clicking on "are we the badies" moment takes you to this YouTube video:

Click above to watch video 


Here are some excerpts from The National Review article:

On the menu today: What does it say about our country that there is a market for flags that declare, “Trump or Death?” Why do some fans of the former president find that an effective or inspiring rallying cry? And are they play-acting in the role of revolutionaries, or do they mean what they say?

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But what caught my eye was the article’s illustration photo of dueling protesters from when Trump was arraigned in Manhattan, including a protester who’s holding a flag declaring “Trump or Death.” It’s not a homemade flag; there are at least three different versions of it for sale online. One features the skull from The Punisher wearing a MAGA-style cap that reads, “Take America back.” Another adds the slogan, “The choice is clear.”

The man holding the flag in the photo spoke to New York magazine reporter on the day of the protest:

“This is my new favorite flag,” says Dion Cini, who is holding a flag that says “Trump or Death” outside Trump Tower on Monday morning. “It doesn’t necessarily mean my death; it could mean your death.”


Geraghty shares my view when he writes "But I’m more struck by the existence of a market for Cini’s 'new favorite flag.'” 

Another excerpt that expresses my thoughts:

If you insist upon placing the choice of “Trump or death” before the rest of the country, and will accept no other terms, recognize that there are high odds that the rest of country will refuse to be intimidated into electing someone they detest. The answer may well be, “Let’s go with death, then.” The wavers of that flag think they’re emulating Patrick Henry and the Founding Fathers, but they’re much more like the British redcoats, effectively declaring, “You must accept that our guy will rule, or we will kill you or die trying.” “My way or I kill you” is a fundamentally un-American philosophy and is the modus operandi of al-Qaeda, ISIS, the Iranian mullahs, Vladmir Putin, Xi Jinping, and every other tinpot dictator, autocrat, and tyrant around the world.

This article in the UK Independent has "Trump or death" in the title even though there's only this one reference to the flag: "Meanwhile, a large flag reading “TRUMP OR DEATH” hovered above the crowd."

‘Trump or death’: The grim circus in Manhattan as far-right figures protest historic arraignment

Here's another article, this one from a French publication, with "Trump or death" in the title:

Although that article only references the flag once (The anti-Trump camp unfurled a large banner reading "Trump lies all the time" and chanted "Lock him up!" as Team MAGA waved a flag with the slogan "Trump or Death) it has this photo:


Although there's no such group named "Team MAGA" whoever wrote this suggests Trump or Death is their flag. 

Here's another article with a reference to the flag. It was in The Guardian (yet another international publication): 

Trump shatters laws of political physics with third indictment

The former president’s support base holds firm as each negative in a court of law translates to a positive in the court of public opinion















But even as observers savored a sombre yet reaffirming moment for the rule of law, a follower of the former US president could be seen outside court waving a giant flag. “Trump or death,” it declared, not far from the halls of Congress where lethal violence erupted on January 6,2021.


While the Trump or Death flag isn't the top illustration (above left) it is used in the article in The Guardian:

Click above to enlarge


Here's an article from Business Inside which doesn't have "Trump or Death" in the title and the flag or phrase isn't in article, but has it in the photo used to illustrate the article:

Back to my thoughts and fears about the kinds of people who, while they may or may not fly this flag, are such fervent Trump supporters that they have thoughts about the message of the "Trump or Death" slogan. 

It is irrelevant that many, probably a very large majority, of those who wave this flag would risk their lives for Trump. While organized groups like the Proud Boys talked the talk and then actually walked the walk on January 6th when they stormed the Capital even though it was protected by armed police they presumed correctly that law enforcement officers wouldn't dare to use lethal force against them since none of them displayed firearms openly. 

It remains to be seen whether anyone would follow a call to arms prompted by a transparently coded message coming from Trump or a more direct one coming from one or more public figures saying they should engage in armed protest or worse. I have my doubts many people would engage in a protest where they openly carried firearms. 

Unfortunately, despite my own doubts, it isn't beyond the realm of poissiblity that this could happen. It could be a reaction to Trump being put in jail or his losing the election and claiming once again it was stolen from him.

I would except such an armed protest would first be met by a massive non-lethal  response of tear gas, rubber bullets, and possbly water canons. These emboldened protestors would know that continuing an assault beyond a certain point would be a risk to their own lives. Once police officers and probably National Guard soldiers felt their own lives were in jeopardy they would most likely respond with lethal force to protect themselves.

Gerharty concludes his National Review article with a reference to Fox Mulder, something I have done quite a few times in my own writing:

It’s much more fun to imagine yourself storming the ramparts and vanquishing the evil, whether you imagine that evil to be a child-smuggling ring operating out of a pizza restaurant; some other shadowy cabal pulling the strings behind the scenes; a president you abhor; or that liberal relative, neighbor, or coworker you can’t stand. Conspiracy theories are a form of “checking out” of mundane, boring, dissatisfying reality, and slipping away into an alternate reality where you’re the Fox Mulder, the one guy who can see through the illusion and who has it all figured out.

Sometimes people have abandoned their duty to reality so thoroughly that they think “Trump or death” is a persuasive slogan.

The real danger right now as I see it isn't from a group. It is from that one person out there who is willing to risk their own life for Trump. He has certainly given them a list of targets. I have little doubt that there are some people who are mentally ill, such true believers, or both that they would risk their own lives for Trump. There's no way to know how many there are, but all it takes is one.

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